Legolas and Gimli

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Sam Gamgee
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Post by Sam Gamgee » Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:35 pm

Has anyone read the epilogue? Maybe it says in there. My friends in the Tolkien Class at school (I was refused entry because of limited seating, since apparently I know enough about "intro to lotr" already...) read i think both versions of it. i'll have to get a copy from one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Sam hints something about Legolas and Gimli...
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Post by idoron » Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:44 pm

Well, yes there were islands about Valinor, but during the third age valinor was "removed from the circle of the world" so you couldn't reach those islands without the "supernatural" intervention of the Valar.

The departure of Legolas is told in the Tale of Years. I suppose that fact that Gimli accompanied him could be a "rumor" because of the inclusion of the phrase "it is said." however, it also says that the passing of the ship brought the "end" of the Fellowship in ME.

Here's a neat riddle. In RotK, App A in the line of Durin's folk, Gimli's death is put in 3A (Third Age) 3141 and then, underneath, "(FA 100)" with means Fourth Age 100. But 3141 is Fourth Age 120, the year App. B says they sailed out of Anduin.

So what? Well, if Gimli died in FA 100, it was 20 years before Legolas left ME. If he was alive in FA 120, then he could have went.

That might be a typo in my copy (it's old), can anyone confirm this and check my math?
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Post by Sam Gamgee » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:10 pm

I was reading Letters of JRRT again last night, and two interesting things came up. #1, Tolkien makes a distinction between Valinor and Eressëa. They are not technically the same thing. Eressëa is still an island disconnected, though close to Valinor. Don't know what exactly that means, but it may be significant.

#2 (about the Eldar's privilege to go back to Eressëa, "There may certain rare exceptions or accomofations...; and so certain 'mortals' who have played some great part in Elvish afffairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo..., Bilbo..., Sam...; and as a unmique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as a friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel. (letter 154)

there ya go.
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Post by idoron » Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:07 pm

Is that saying they went to the Lonely Isle or on to Valinor?
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Post by Sam Gamgee » Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:31 pm

Tol Eressëa. Isn't that where all the sailing elves go?
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Post by idoron » Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:15 am

*blank look*

Uh, I don't know. I always thought they went on to Valinor, but I realize now that I have no specific text to support that.
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Post by Guest » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:42 pm

idoron wrote:A few mortals do go there.

Sam's actual fate is not stated "canonically." His journey over the sea is presented as "legend." Anyway, he would have left after his Shire-ly obligations were fufilled. After Rose dies.

I agree with Sam, Aragorn and Arwen are fated to restore the rule of Kings in ME.

Here is the "But." In the days before the "moral" not physical fall of Numenor the Kings would depose to their heirs when their heirs came to their prime, instead of remaining king to their death. If Aragorn had done that, as was the custom in Numenor, he and Arwen could, if granted passage on the same grounds as Gimli, have gone to Valinor.

What about Legolas, would he have been denied passage for Gimli's sake?

I belive Sam would still have been able to go into te west. Maybe aule had his hans in this one. :D

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